Erika: Hey guys. Welcome back to the podcast. Today I’m joined by Michelle from Jemmi Massage. She’s a train lymphatic drainage massage specialist, and I’m really excited because we get into the nitty gritty of the lymphatic system and why lymphatic drainage massage can be so beneficial for our bodies, for our circulatory system to release toxins in even our mental health.
Erika: Over here at Babe Skills, we love a lymphatic training situation. I do gua sha on my face regularly. In fact, if you go to my reels, there’s one where I did one side of my face and not the other to show the comparison and the one side that I did is so snatched and you can tell all that fluid is just drained.
[00:01:00]Erika: It really makes a difference over here. I also love dry brushing and we talk about that and I’m just super excited for you guys to hear the science behind Lymphatic Drainage massage. And before we get into it, if you aren’t already, please hit that subscribe button so you can be locked into the Babe Skills podcast.
Erika: We release these episodes every other week, and I’ve got some amazing things in store for 2023. I wanna welcome Michelle Beke to the podcast. Very excited to have you on today because you know, Babe Skills is all about clean beauty, conscious living, and all things wellness. And I’m so excited to talk about all things lymphatic drainage.
Erika: So welcome. Why don’t you just briefly introduce, introduce yourself, uh, who you are, your family life, and what you do for work.
[00:02:00]Michele: Hi. I’m Michelle. I live in Columbus, Ohio. I have myself, I have four kids. Um, varying ages. I have one in you know, from elementary school, middle school, high school. So we’re kind of all over the place. Um, and, uh, two dogs. So definitely busy at home, but also busy in work. Very passionate and love what I do. I’m a massage therapist and over the last couple years I became kind of obsessed with lymphatic drainage and really wanted to know more about it and really kind of dove into it research wise.
Michele: And then found a way to be trained in this Brazilian technique that is actually not taught in the US. And so that’s what I do. I specialize in primarily just lymphatic drainage massage and yeah, decided last year to bring it to Columbus because I couldn’t believe that nobody was doing it here, and it’s such a valuable service and tool for overall health.
[00:03:00]Erika: Yeah, I’d love to kinda jump into the benefits, all of the wonderful benefits of lymphatic drainage massage. But to your point you know, I was in Chicago before this for five years. My friend and hairdresser, Abigail Hail, shout out to Abigail Hail came from LA and. We always talk all things wellness.
Erika: And you and I were chatting offline that she is the reason that I found you in the first place. And we were saying how wild it is, you cannot find this because, you know, I had it in Chicago, she had it in LA. I’ve seen like friends and influencers in New York City doing it all the time and it’s just so wonderful to finally have this year. Um, so can you briefly chat about, or not briefly tell us about all the amazing benefits of lymphatic drain as massage and like maybe what the lymphatic system is.
[00:04:00]Michele: Yeah. I feel like to understand the benefits you have to know a little bit more about the lymphatic system and you know, like why, why is this being talked about?
Michele: Why do we see this trending in you know, larger cities? Larger, you know, beauty markets, so to speak. But the lymphatic system it’s such an integral part of our overall health and body of our system. It’s a part of every other system and organ within our body. It’s the largest circulatory system in the body, even two times larger than our blood.
Michele: But wow, lymphatic, you know, we know that the blood has a pump. Um, the lymphatic system does not, so it, only moves manually through, exercise, massage and diet. And so this is how it can easily become backed up or slow, sluggish and stagnant.
[00:05:00]Erika: So, what’s in your lymphatic system? Is it like the byproduct? It’s like the byproduct of cellular function, right? Is it toxicities.
Michele: It’s like our sewer system. Okay. So it’s gonna be pulling the toxins out of our blood and trying to filter those out for us. So our lymph nodes act as filters and so in a way that you know, it’s trying to pull those toxins out of the blood and, and yeah, filter those out for us.
Michele: Um, but then there’s just times that it can become slow, like I said. But I mean, really the major functions of the lymphatic system are returning all excess fluid cardiovascular to that the cardiovascular system couldn’t pick up. Um, and so like when the cardiovascular cant pick up those fluid and return it properly, then it’s gonna create some of those like the swelling and edema.
[00:06:00]Michele: So maybe, you know, in your ankles a lot of times people have that. Mm-hmm. Um, also the lymphatic system absorbs and transports the dietary fat that we eat and it’s also the largest contributor to our immune system. So we can see why you know, in those factors, why it’s like really beneficial for the lymphatic system to be working and operating properly because it’s going to affect our overall health, it really is.
Michele: Um, you know, because it’s the lymphatic system is what circulates the immune. In our body contributing to that overall immune health. Um, so yeah, benefits of doing lymphatic massage is just keeping that fluid moving and flowing to reduce the stagnation and because when you have stagnation there’s a long list of symptoms that come with that.
[00:07:00]Michele:. This stagnation symptoms would be pretty classic, water retention edema, it can also equal skin breakouts, rashes and eczema. Just general stiffness in the body, a lot of times I will ask people, you know, do you ever wake up in the mornings and have your like fingers, ankles, knees feel a little swollen, and then it dissipates throughout the day, that’s your lymphatic system.
Michele: Fatigue, just general fatigue, a lot of times, especially after eating a meal, we shouldn’t generally feel exhausted just from eating a meal. Um, sometimes general itching, headaches and things like that, those can all be attributed to a slow, sluggish, lymphatic system.
[00:08:00]Michele: And so you know, we see then those aren’t things we really wanna live with on a continual basis. And so doing the massage, lymphatic massage, exercise, those things will help keep the lymphatic system flowing and, moving and to prevent those things from happening because we have to think of the lymphatic system running through our body like a river.
Michele: It’s running alongside and through similar and with our blood. But again, it has no pump, so we need to actively keep that fluid flowing cuz you know you don’t want it to be backed up.
[00:09:00]Erika: Yeah, I mean, all of this, I’m just shaking my head, makes so much sense. It just seems like an excellent tool to have in your holistic wellness practice for your, for your life. But I do like gua sha or face cupping. And you can see a difference in in one side of my face versus the other one. Um, it’s crazy, you know, which and part of that is fluid. And I think hot tip here, I see a lot of people doing gua and not like opening their lymph nodes before
Erika: You know, I feel like that needs to be talked about. More people are just like kind of going right into the ritual and not like taking the time to open those little spots. But I haven’t yet been to see you, but I’m coming soon. I am, and a couple things. I notice like a lot of people take these before and after pictures because similar to the gua sha I do in my face with the face cupping. You look like you lost a couple pounds. And I think like that’s incredible. It just shows you like it works immediately. So is that just fluid moving or leaving our body or what is happening there?
, [00:10:00]
Michele: Yeah, it’s truly just fluid and fluid retention. Yeah, I do pos some of those before and after pictures, like of the stomach on my Instagram. I will always tell people they’re a wonderful marketing tool. They’re very eye-catching and sometimes shocking. Sometimes, you know, people, of course, different results vary. Honestly, I always get nervous taking them because even though I’m so secure in what I’m doing and the knowledge and everything is, sometimes I’m like, ooh, what if it doesn’t show a difference?
Michele: But it always does. But yeah, I, so, and, and I’ll tell people if that’s what brought you in great. But now I’m gonna like, tell you and convince you all the, like, health aspects behind it.
Sure. Um, because it’s just, it’s fleeting. Like it’s not gonna, you’re not, you know, right. Like, you’re not gonna, it’s not like you lost. Like you’ve gotta maintain a healthy lifestyle. Like that’s not the reason the number one reason someone should come is to be skinnier.
[00:11:00]Michele: Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean if that’s your motivation to start, that’s your motivation to start. Yeah. But like I said, you know, your body is still gonna benefit health-wise, um right.
Michele: You know, whether that’s your inspiration to come in or not. Um, but um, but there are people who see me consistently. And it’s interesting, there’s been a few people and they all tell me about the same number that they feel like they lost well, I feel like the scale told them they lost four pounds.
Michele: And then, oh, so you, so you can truly lose weight. And then is it like, it’s water weight, you know, it’s water weight. Excess fluid that you’re carrying around in your body.
[00:12:00]Erika: Okay. You guys, I have to tell you about my latest obsession, and that is Sakara. Sakara is a plant-based and gluten-free meal delivery system that I’ve honestly wanted to try for years. I finally gave it a go a couple weeks ago, and I am obsessed. The meals are so delicious, so filling. It’s so nice not to have another decision to make in your day and just know you’re getting a nutrient dense meal. You can pick from plans for five days , for three days, for two days, you can do breakfast, lunch, and dinner, or just breakfast and lunch, for example. It’s amazing and they graciously gave me a code to share with you guys. If you use the specific link in my show notes plus the code babeskills20, that will get you 20% off your first order. That’s huge. You guys. They never give a discount that big, so definitely give it a go. If you’ve been wanting to try, you will not regret it.
Erika: And you mentioned something previously too about like, um, something about diet or diet function like that goes into our lymph system too. Is it like a byproduct of the food we eat or?
Michele: Yeah. So, you know, the foods that we eat and I think most of us know this, you know have an effect on our health.
[00:13:00]Michele: But, you know, poor because the lymphatic system and there’s a lot of lymph nodes, which, you know, lymph nodes are those filters. There are quite a lot in the stomach. And so you know, we can go into a whole gut health and yeah, all of that but, you know, poor digestion and the foods that we eat can cause the lymphatic system, you know, to slow it down or just put more stress or strain onto the system.
Michele: Yeah, because one of its function, you know, is absorbing and transporting the dietary fats that we eat.
Erika: So, this is so interesting. This is, yeah. Perfect sense.
Michele: Okay. And like what, like that’s how you can support through diet. You know, and people will ask me that, like how, what are things I can eat or do to like, help my lymphatic system and I really recommend looking into, you know, anti-inflammatory foods and diets. So, which is gonna be a, you know, a lot more of your dark leafy greens and those kinds of things. And, um, trying to avoid, um, of more of the inflammatory foods.
[00:14:00]Erika: So is there anything else you recommend doing to support your lymph system aside from, you know, getting regular massages and how often should you do the lymphatic drain of massages.
Michele: Yeah. Um, so I do the wash on my face too with the little jade roller. Um, I just feel like it does help move that, it keeps that fluid moving. Um, and I also use dry brushing. And I’m kind of on a mission to, and if you ever come in and see me or just reach out to me in any way, I’m happy to help teach people how to do it, because I know it can be overwhelming.
[00:15:00]Michele: You know, it’s hard enough to keep up with my skincare. I can’t add in any other more routines into my life. Like, yeah, right. Brushing can be simple. It doesn’t need to be super long and I utilize it in the morning, so when I wake up, I keep it in my bathroom so I, you know, use the bathroom, brush my teeth, brush my body.
Michele: It’s kind of my like, routine.
Erika: And because it’s, it’s energizing, right?
Michele: Like you, it’s absolutely energizing and that’s why I recommend like, do it in the morning because honestly for me it, it’s energizing and then like, it’s not a great nightly routine because it’s moving but yeah, that’ll move the limp.
Michele: You think about it laying down all night, you haven’t helped move that fluid. So, um, you know, it’s gonna help move the limp. It’s gonna get the circulatory system up and going and yea it’s invigorating, so it’ll get you started.
[00:16:00]Erika: And so on the subject of dry brushing you know, I mentioned my daughter is two and I’ve been on this hormone healing journey. And I have a sluggish thyroid. And one of the things, I have a holistic team, like a doctor I’m working with and a registered dietician, a holistic dietician. And yeah, one of the things she’s recommended for me is to dry brush regularly. So like you said, we could get into gut issues and thyroids and hormones, but really is so beneficial.
Erika: So I, I hope I’m doing it right, but maybe we can get you to give like a babe skills tutorial or something sometime, to do a reel. Um, like I just watch videos online as well, and I just keep my dry brush like, outside of my, the little ledge on my, um, shower, so I remember to do it. Otherwise I’m gonna forget, you know? If it’s like not in sight.
Michele: I even will tell people because I know that’s a big thing. It’s like, oh, I, I took a shower and I forgot to do it. I’m kind of convinced the whole do it right before you take a shower is really just if you’re schlepping off a lot of like dry skin.
[00:17:00]Michele: I don’t really think that’s a necessary part of the dry brushing. And as you continue to, and as you do dry brushing regularly, your skin will get softer and, and lose some of that dryness because you know, you’re promoting the lymph in your body and helping your skin.
Michele: What I tell people is you’re following the flow of the lymph system. You always wanna work within, you know, you think about a fluid and moving with the water or, you know, you don’t wanna go against it. I start, you know, you can do the top of your feet if you want, just because I don’t know, kind of feels good. [00:18:00]
Michele: Then, um, it’s, it’s basically joint to joint. So I go from ankle to knee because, and stop there. You don’t go the entire leg because from ankle to knee will drain there in that pelvic space behind the knee. And so that’s where you wanna to brush it.
Joint, to joint is a good. That’s easy to remember.
Michele: Yes. And then knee to hip is gonna drain right in that limp node right there in front of the hip there and so both legs, I do that, and then on the stomach I divide it into a quadrant essentially. So from the belly button down will drain into the node right in front of that pelvic bone. And so then I just divide it in half.
Michele: So I go from, um, I’ll kind of show you like one half to that side and then one half to the other side. And then belly button up actually comes and drains up into your armpit into that. So I’ll take the brush and just go under my ribs up to my armpit in that fashion. And then the arms are just similar to the leg, so joint to joint.
[00:19:00]Michele: So wrist to elbow is gonna drain there in, you know, the inner opposite of the elbow, and then elbow to shoulder comes and drains into the armpit. So from the back of the arm, kind of swoop it around in under the armpit, and then, you know, five minutes, maybe 10, I mean, whatever you have. But it can be simple and quick, and just doing that every day really will help.
Michele: Your overall lymphatic system and also like your skin will benefit from it.
Erika: So, sign me up. I know I need to be more regular. I wanted to ask you, do you do each leg or do you do one side of the body first and then the other side?
[00:20:00]Michele: Um, I do one leg and then the other leg. So I’m already like, kind of bending off. So it doesn’t really matter. Yeah, so I just move all the way from bottom up.
Erika: Okay. That’s what I’ve been doing. Thank, thank God you’re saying you’re fine.
Michele: But again, you know, you don’t have to be perfect at everything. You know, so if you’re, you’re starting something and, and dry brushing, I don’t feel like, you know, unless you’re moving in a downward motion, you always wanna be moving towards the heart, so move in upward strokes.
Erika: That is, that’s such a good tip that what you said though about like, you don’t have to be perfect because I been meditating for seven years and I’ve been sharing it a little bit with this community and I keep getting the sentiment that like, oh, I don’t have 20 minutes, or I miss a day. And like similar to your skincare routine or just adding in another thing if you feel like you have to always be on and perfect, like it prevents people from even starting in the first place. So it’s good to hear you say probably be perfect, just, you know, yeah. Get it there. And, get it done.
[00:21:00]Michele: I’ve been there so much in my life where it’s like, I can’t do it right all the time. So I won’t even do a little bit. If what, if what you have is one minute to just do your legs fine, just do your legs. Like, you’re still gonna benefit. It’s okay. Like, and just be kind to yourself and do what you can.
Erika: Like I love that. So I wanna talk about the actual massage too. So what can someone expect when they come in? Is the massage similar to a regular massage? Just tell us everything.
Michele: Yeah. Um, I usually always sit down and give a pretty thorough explanation of what the massage is gonna look like, what it’s gonna feel like.
Michele: Because I understand and know that for most people this is a new and different experience. Nobody else in Columbus does it. So unless they’ve had it done in, you know, New York or LA or Miami. It is different than like your swedish or deep tissue massage. It should be different because we’re affecting different areas and we’re doing different things.
[00:22:00]Michele: Um, this is not a replacement for your muscular massage because the work that I’m doing, I’m not even working into the muscle tissue at all. So in that regard, it is a much lighter, gentler touch massage because I’m only moving the fluid. There’s different points throughout their body where I’ll make kind of a waving pulsing motion with my hand.
Michele: Those are at the larger lymph nodes. And so I start there and give those some stimulation and activation, kind of giving the lymph node a signal of like, hey, wake up, we’re gonna send some stuff your way. That’s various points throughout the body as I work through it. Um, and I start on the legs and we go over the front of the legs first.
[00:23:00]Michele: We like to go over those twice just because we’re, you know, on them all day and it takes a little of that fluid has just a little further to travel. But also, when I do the legs, I utilize cupping on the legs. But with the vacuum cup, but in a light pressure moving cupping.
Michele: So you don’t get the circle marks of your traditional cupping. But I utilize cupping in that way to help smooth out the fascia. So you could do a whole other episode, fascia.
Erika: I know, I’ve heard that’s another little thing I’ve not like taken a deep dive into.
[00:24:00]Michele: Essentially, um, we, once we’ve removed some fluid, then we wanna smooth out that fascia. You know, that connective tissue layer. So by doing that just, it helps increase mobility. Because you have issues of fascia becoming binding and then can impact the flow of blood and fluid or, you know, kind of a vice versa situation.
Michele: So we wanna keep that fascia nice and smooth. So you have health benefits of that, but also a really nice you know, beauty side effect of smoothing fascia is reducing the appearance of cellulite.. Yeah, so we love that. Um, You know, that’s what cellulite is. It’s not fat, it’s bound up fascia.
[00:25:00]Michele: And so kind of like a visual description, if you think about that, like kind of thicker cellophane, like gift wrapping basket cellophane. If you think about that, when it’s you know, in its clean state, it’s perfectly smooth and clean. But then if you like crinkle up some of it, you know, you can kind of think of that in terms of your fascia and cellulite.
Michele: So it’s just like crinkled or bound up a little bit, and so then you can smooth it out and then that’s how it would reduce the appearance of cellulite. Yeah and sometimes when I’m giving this description, the massage, I’ll go off on little things like that. We do the legs and then the stomach, uh, we do massage the stomach.
Michele: I know, and I know that’s a of times the first time for somebody to have their stomach massage and there might be some nerves regarding it. I always just try to reassure people that you know, it feels really good and it’s really helpful and beneficial. And this is another reason why I do give the description of the massage because I do cover more areas of the body than people are used to in like a typical swedish.
[00:26:00]Michele: We massage the stomach and moving the fluid into their, you know, similar fashion as the dry brushing. But we also add in some stretching of the diaphragm. So I’ll have people, there’s some deep breathing involved. Deep breathing is also another tool that we can use throughout our lives and helpful for our lymphatic system.
Michele: Deep breathing has been known to move the lymph in our body. So when we massage the stomach, there’s times I ask them to do deep breathing while I’m stimulating those lymph nodes. And then stretching, opening the diaphragm because I’ll have people inhale and then as they exhale, I run my thumbs underneath their ribs to stretch and open that diaphragm, because having that stretched and open just is gonna better ability to improve our breath work.
[00:27:00]Erika: This all sounds amazing. Like you have such a tough voice too. I feel like I’m getting massage right now.
Michele: Oh yeah. And, and it feels really, it feels so good. And that’s something you can do even at home yourself, like lying down. You can kind of take your fingers and, you know, inhale and then exhale, run your fingers under the ribcage.
Michele: And that just, it feels really nice to just stretch and open up that diaphragm. And then we move to arms where I’ll stimulate and pulse into the armpit in that larger lymph node. Um, and then I also cover the sides of the body and then the back of the legs. And I do go over up and over the glutes a bit there and again, utilizing the cupping there.
[00:28:00]Michele: Um, and then I, you know, let people know that the, the back and shoulders and the body don’t typically retain a lot of fluid, naturally. Um, so in this particular massage that is just a very gentle kind of, we don’t wanna be left out, massage.
Michele: It would just be strange to not have your back. I offer like a one hour session and then a 90 minute session and then so that, that’s the full body one hour and then the 90 minute session then. And sometimes I wonder why I even offer without it, but some people don’t always have the time and that’s okay.
Michele: But the 90 minute then includes, we end on the face. So it’s just, it’s more, it’s all just lymphatic drainage, massage of the face. We reduce puffiness around the eyes, clear out and drain the sinuses.
Erika: Oh my gosh, I’ve had that done by someone in a facial who’s was trained.
[00:29:00]Erika: It looked like my face lost five pounds when I left. Like, it was so sculpted and it was amazing.
Michele: I’ve had people come in, you know, with their allergy puffiness and then, you know, leave and it’s gone. So it’s amazing.
Erika: Sometimes after I get a massage, you know, you need to flush drink water because of those, like toxins coming out of your, um not toxins, lactic acid coming out of your muscles. Is there any, like, do you have to use the restroom right after or.
Michele: Yes. Do you, yeah, and that’s what I tell me about the largest side effect really is that it’s a higher urine output the rest of the day.
[00:30:00]Michele: So expect to either go more frequently. Higher volume when you go combination of both some people will manifest in bowel movement and that’s fine also. Definitely you do want that urine output because that is the excess fluid leaving your body. So that’s the goal we’re trying to get to.
Michele: Yeah. Um, but I also tell people it, it shouldn’t be dehydrating because it’s excess fluid, but of course always continue to stay hydrated. It’s not like make sure you drink a, a gallon of water right after the massage. I wouldn’t necessarily go out and like do a lot of like heavy drinking after the massage.
[00:31:00]Michele: I’d say do that and then get the massage to flush it out here. And then, um, how often do I recommend this is, you know, the most frequently asked question and I always say I kind of have a long answer because I’m the world’s worst salesperson. But essentially I really just encourage people to add it into their regular health routine.
Michele: This is the tricky part because I think what’s a regular health routine is very individualistic. So I always tell people, you know, it depends on your goals, your lifestyle outside of when you’re seeing me. You know, scheduling, budgeting, all those things I’m fully aware of .
Michele: So there’s no adverse like reactions for coming as much as you want. No. I should just simplify it and say, you know, as often in as you possibly can cause it is something, you could do this every day with no harm to your body, which I mean, sign me up first. Believe me. Yeah I just recommend people after they have the massage, like, pay attention to your body a little closer.
[00:32:00]Michele: See how it feel, notice changes, literally you should walk, get off the table feeling lighter, a little more energized. Most everybody tells me the night they have it, they have the most restful sleep. And so notice things like that. And then, try to pay attention to where they might, start to wear off, so to speak.
Michele: I’ve had, you know, quite a handful of my clients that are generally overall active and healthy and pretty clean eaters, so to speak, feel like they feel it lasts between seven to 14 days. So some people see me weekly, some every other week, some monthly, some quarterly. But my whole thing is I never want to create this little, as far as like scheduling, I never want to create a box and say, yeah, this is definitely what you should do, and then have somebody feel like oh, I can’t do it perfectly or I can’t do that for whatever reason.
[00:33:00]Michele: And so then I won’t do it at all. So you do what you can and you’ll always, your body and health will always benefit from this. And so, you know, it’s just how often you feel personally that yours needs it.
Michele: You know, I’m happy to help you in that process. But I think, and what I wanna encourage people is, you know, a better connection to their own body and, and recognizing and feeling and, and seeing those signs. And so sometimes people will see me frequently for a little bit and then maybe taper off because they feel like it’s generally improving. So there’s no wrong way to do it.
[00:34:00]Erika: That’s perfect answer. And I like your point about, I feel like, I don’t know if it’s just after like the pandemic, but people are more and more into tuning into their own body and the way they feel versus just like not listening, letting things go.
Erika: You know, being in a rush in their rat race. I feel like there’s just this whole, at least in, in my audience and my friends and you know what I mean? I feel like everybody is really interested in just getting in tune with themselves mentally, spiritually, within their body. And I think that’s an excellent way to describe it.
Erika: So yeah, I wanna thank you so for being here. I learned so much. I feel like I could talk to you for another hour, but I know you’re super busy. Can you tell everybody where they can find you online or where they can come see you or book with you.
[00:35:00]Michele: The best way online is probably through my Instagram, which admittedly I’m don’t post as often as I should, but it’s, Jemmimassage, J E M M I massage on Instagram and then that has a link to my scheduling, I’m in a Salon Lofts in Grandview on fifth. Then on Thursdays and Sundays I actually operate out of Good Hu Aesthetics office in Dublin.
Michele: So I have two locations there, for now. And then, um, working on a website and all that still, but for now, yeah, Instagram, you can always message me there. And then my salon loft site has my phone number, which please text me. Im terrible with voicemails, I admit. Sorry.
Erika: Same we’ll put out your links in the show notes too.
[00:36:00]Michele: And a little thing, sometimes people ask me like, what does the name mean? Like Jemmi? Um, it’s a combination of mine and my kids’ first initials.
Erika: I love that. Oh my gosh, that’s such a great idea.
Michele: Yeah, so it just played out and then I showed my one son. I was like, what do you think about this one? He pronounced a jemmi and I thought, oh, I like that because I’m a Gemini. It felt, yeah, it felt like all fitted together, so yeah.
Erika: Oh, I love that. Well thank you again for being an a amazing guest. We’ll have to have you back on. I feel like there’s so much more we can talk about. And I’m coming to see you soon.
Michele: And I always tell people, listen, text me anytime questions, wanna talk about anything because I love to talk about it. So any time. But yeah, thank you so much for having me.
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